NEWROADS CHEVROLET CADILLAC BUICK GMC Archives - Page 15 of 33 - NewRoads
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Also, the first location spot says "F"not "R" for bright blue custom as is on the cowl tag with Z. Did we simply have a sloppy typer? What the apparent errors do is focus attention on the rest of the numbers. Of course a U versus V is an easy error to make, either when stamping it or reading it, as is F versus R.
The fleet code was not on every replica car. However, the dash code was. But, the dash code was also used on non-pace cars with special order stripes. Lack of a fleet code doesn't indicate that this isn't a pace car replica. The cowl tag in data submitted looks like a pacer tag. I have a parts car with a small block and power steering and I just bought a big block without power steering.
Can I put the power steering box and pump from the small block onto the big block? Or do I need a big block box and or a new pump? Also I have a Muncie on the tail shaft how do I tell what it is? Chad Kucsan, Dec We're pretty certain the pump and steering box are the same between L6 and all V8s for The hoses are different and the PS pump pulley is different. Of course the pump brackets are different. There are different steering arms and pitman arm for power steering, and a conversion would also need the crank pulley extension.
The assembly manual has an exception page for power steering that shows what is different for big-block. This tailshaft was used in all types for several years and doesn't help pin the model down. How unique if at all was this option? Yes, some of the paints were listed as "S. It isn't a common color, but we do have some examples of it currently 19 in our vehicle database. I have a Camaro SS. I am interested in rebuilding the manual steering box, do you have any information on this subject, or do you know where I can find it, also who would sell internal parts for this steering box?
William Billings, Dec The chassis service and overhaul manuals have info on the steering boxes in them. The manuals are available in repro. Can't help on parts. Two contact suggestions are: I have been trying to figure out what engine I have in it and its originality.
The casting is and the date code is D 23 8. I know from these 's that it is a block that could have been aor a Now for the puzzling part. The code stamped on the front pad of the block reads CE I have not been able to decode this in all of my research. Any information you can give me as to the size of the engine or and the strange engine ID code would be appreciated.
Scott MacGregor, Dec This is a service replacement engine using a block that was cast April 8, The first three characters of the stamp stand for Chevrolet Engine 8 and the last five are the incremental serial number. You will not be able to tell anything from this number without looking at factory records. An original distributor stamp might tell the story also. An example of an indirect method of determining the crank is to put an indicator on the piston top with the head off and measure the crankshaft throw as you slowly manually rotate the balancer or flywheel.
For a 4-inch diameter piston, a 3. The Fisher Body Plate reads: That the body was done in Norwood, the interior color is dark blue, the paint on the exterior was Glacier Blue, and it was built the 1st week of June with the Style Trim Group.
How can I find out what size motor was originally in this car? What was the original transmission? I would like to restore this car back to original.
Also what stripe kit was on it? My Camaro has a monoleaf rear. I'm stuck at this point. I got the body painted and the interior back to original.
But I need to know just what kind of Camaro I have so that I can stripe it and return the mechanicals back to original. I need help on this. Elaine Gladhill, Dec If the car has monoleaf springs, and a bolt rear, and the rear is original you need to check the axle stamp and casting date - see the decoding section of web site for detailsthen this car probably had a engine with a PowerGlide automatic, although 3-speed automatic, 3-speed manual, and 4-speed manual transmissions were also possibilities.
No way to tell for sure from the data you've provided - you'll have to look at the clues available is there a clutch pedal, or is the steering column original and have a shifter, etc. Assuming there was not an additional optional stripe added, the X11 code on a non-SS car as this is means the stripe was the D96 type, which are wheel opening accents.
If your car had RallySport, and you'll have to look at the RS features to see if your car had it, then the rocker panels were also blacked out with this color.
I am restoring a convertible. It has blue deluxe interior, blue top and Grotto blue exterior. I'm just about ready to repaint it and I'm looking for a modern paint code that will come close to the original grotto blue.
If you guys have any ideas let me know. Ditzler Rinshed-Mason A DuPont L Take these codes to any modern automotive paint supplier and they should be able to cross-reference you to an equivalent modern paint code.
I would like to know if there were any special cowl tag codes used on pace cars? Are there any production figures on pace cars, how many big blocks, how many small blocks, what transmissions? Thanks Kane Morrow, Nov There are no official and complete Chevrolet records, so there are numerous viewpoints on the Pace car replicas.
There are several areas where CRG disagrees with Greg. For example the ten Canadian small-block cars were cars rather than SSs. And the Pacesetter promotion cars were not Pace car replicas, but rather were a specific set of option combinations limited to L6 cars, coupe or convertible, of any color, and intended to sell cars rather than to create replicas. Also, we disagree that a dealer-built car of a specific color that was modified to look like a Pacer is a genuine Pacer.
Our view on this issue is more aligned with that of Donna Crispino - a dealer-built car is a "replica of a replica", and perhaps important from a historical perspective, but not a genuine Pace car replica. While we agree with Greg's general argument that were probably more Pacers built than previously believed, we doubt that there as many built as Greg believes possible.
Another opinion, well-documented and with extensive back-up data, is expressed in the difficult-to-find book "The Official Chevrolet Indy Pace Car Book from to ", by Donna Crispino and John R. It is not currently known if there were any U. All currently known U. Pace car replicas are SS models. The following, to the best of our knowledge, defines necessary, but perhaps not sufficient, criteria for Pace Car replicas.
Many, but not all, have fleet codes in the option field as well. All were built between 04A and 06C of They are known to have come with LF7 Canada-only 06C cars, as far as we knowL48, or L35 engines no known L30 engines at this timewith either 4-speeds or floor-shifted automatics.
Two drivers charged with racing, one clocked at double the 100 km/h limit
All known and documented non-Canadian cars were built 05D or before. All Canadian cars which are completely documented were built 06C. Glad I found you. I now have the RS convertible my dad bought in and that I drove in high school. It has the LF7 with the 2-barrel Rochester carburetor. Ever since we have owned this car, it has occasionally demonstrated a lag or stall on acceleration, now almost to the danger point when pulling out into traffic.
I recently put a new reconditioned carb on with the same results. On the left side of the engine, a bracket and cable connect the engine to the motor mount. My dad said this was from a Chevy recall in the early '70s due to breaking motor mounts.
When I begin to restore this car see next question should I leave this cable Rube Goldberg set up or remove it? This car survived 30 years in Illinois and now needs some TLC. Any recommendations on literature to study before beginning a restoration or what to look for from a restoration company?
I also need info on repairing the hideaway headlight system - when it broke in '73, Chevy said it was more trouble to fix than it was worth! There is some rust in the door jam portion on each side - any recommendations on the best way to deal with this?
Scott Altman, Nov 1. Sounds like a bad accelerator pump, despite the new carb. There are other possibilities discussed via email. If it is not the accelerator pump, these problems are difficult to debug via email, so you should see a local mechanic.
However this is not a normal behavior for this engine. Your dad is correct. If you want to restore, and if you use original type motor mounts, you'll want to keep it. The original types have no metal backup connection, relying solely on bonded rubber. If the bond breaks or the rubber cracks, you've got a loose motor on that side.
Then consider the following most of the catalogs will show these if you don't find them elsewhere: It is really great, but I still can't figure out if a camaro I'm looking at is a true SS. It says SS on the front and rear, has a SS hood and a multi-leaf bolt.
I saw on another site that it would probably have a Z27 stamp if it was a SS. Do you know if that's true or not? Also the car says on the fenders but does not have the orig motor. Looking at the heater box, it has the two holes behind the rear head where the small-block tubes would have came thru. If it is a true big-block car would it have the holes behind the rear head in the firewall?
Please let me know what you think this car is as it's about mi from me and I would like to buy it if it is a SS car. Thanks for your help. They are described on site in the cowl tag decoding section. The VIN and date match. The body number is earlier than the norm for this date, but not unreasonable. The scheduling code is right on the money with the VIN and date. So the VIN and tag appear to go with each other.
Z27, as a cowl tag code, wasn't used on first-gen Camaros. BBC heater core tubes appear in the middle of the heater box. Transmission and engine mounts are also offset from those on SBC, since the BBC is not centered in the car offset by about an inch to the passenger side. A SS must also have power front disc brakes, and a welded on framerail pad at the rear for the dual exhaust hangers. The axle dates must be compatible get both the stamp date and casting date. If the tranny is original it normally has a partial VIN, and the date must be compatible.
The transmission must be a Muncie if a 4-speed transmission. If it is a big-block an automatic transmission must be a Turbo This is not a hard question for you I am sure, I almost don't want to ask. I just don't know much about these cars. Everything seems correct until I started looking at your site and checked the VIN. This is a good 2 car, but if not an original SS I am going to do some work to it. Chad Schoonover, Nov One can't tell much that is SS-related from a VIN, except that it is a V8 car which it has to be, for it to be an SS and that it was built in Norwood at a time when there should be an X-code on the cowl tag.
See if the tag has an X11 or X55 stamp. The X55 means the car is an SS See the X-code FAQ for more details. If your engine is original, that is your best bet to decode this car - look at the engine application code on the stamp pad and compare to the info in the Visual ID table for other specifics on the SS For starters, the axle must be a bolt with multi-leaf springs, the 4-speed must be a Muncie, and it must have power front disc brakes which it does.
I wanted to know if you could tell me where or how Chevrolet came up with the name of Z for the Camaro? Please E-mail with answer or if you are stumped. Gary Schubert, Nov Gary, we get stumped every once in awhile, usually on tough, component-level, numbers questions on which we're still doing research.
Fortunately, this is an easy one. The RPO's are assigned in related groups by the first letter, with two more characters following. For example, the L's are the engines, and the M's are the transmissions. Even today GM uses the same general option series. The Z series of RPO's are where special package groups are assigned.
For first-generation Camaro, Z21 was the exterior trim package. Z22 was the RallySport package. Z23 was the special interior package, etc. The numbers up through Z27 Super Sport had been reserved or assigned for Camaro or other models. After its debut, RPO Z28 became so popular in the performance press that in Chevy decided to actually name the car model by the option code that had since become so well known.
I just bought a Camaro. My question is about the motor. All the information I have seen says that there were only two small-blocks for that year. A hp and a hp On the aircleaner cover it lists a turbofire hp Is this an incorrect sticker or was this a rare production goof? The engine numbers are as follows VME.
It has a small two-barrel carb and the two-speed PowerGlide transmission. Any information would be most helpful.
The engine codes are year dependent. However, the sticker on the air cleaner is incorrect. Maybe the entire air cleaner is incorrect, or maybe someone just stuck the wrong reproduction sticker on it. I've a RS with 4 speed. I'm getting ready to run a new wiring harness. Any best sources for information, tips and hints on running the harness? Any recommendations on where best to purchase a complete harness? Mike Hinshaw, Nov There are several good harness makers. One line that has a particularly good reputation is the "Factory Fit" brand made by: These harnesses are also carried by many resellers, such as Rick's First Generation.
I'm looking to add the bright pedal chrome trim to my '68 base V-8 convertible. Was this part of an option package? If so, what other types of upgrades were included in the package on a convertible?
If so, what else was included with this package on the convertible?
Daniel Schribert, Nov The pedal trim was part of the Z23 deluxe interior, which was in turn a subset of the Z87 custom interior. Either of these options resulted in the trim, and these two option numbers were the only ways to order it.
In Z23 included the N30 special steering wheel, woodgrain center dash molding, and bright dashpad trim. The wheel opening moldings were part of Z21 exterior trim, which was in turn a subset of the Z22 RallySport package. Either of these options resulted in the moldings, and these two option numbers were the only ways to order it.
In Z21 included bright roof drip moldings and bright belt moldings. I'm rebuilding a Camaro I believe it is a SS I need some help understanding some of the letters.
I know what the color and interior are. Here are the ones that I do not know: However the options normally appear without the dash and comma punctuation.
See the CRG decoding page for more information on these and other option codes. Is there anyway to run the VIN and find out exactly what the car should have been? I recently bought a Camaro that has some of the options of a SS The cowl tag is missing. The motor stamp begins with CE. I can't seem to find out what that motor is.
The only thing I've come close too is a SBC. I really want to find out everything I can about the car. If you have one of those you are fortunate. Without a cowl tag you can only guess at the original stamping and configuration.
With enough research you might get close. Another route is to attempt to find your original owner - who might be able to confirm your original configuration. Your CE motor is a service replacement engine. You can pin down a few more details by looking up the block casting number and comparing to references such as Chevrolet By The Numbersbut for many blocks this will only get you a range of applications for which that block was used.
Where can I find a diagram or picture of the locations for rear speakers in a convertible? I understand it is still behind the seat somewhere? Dean, Nov The speakers are same size as coupe - 6-inches by 9-inches but mounted to the canvas top well facing backwards.
Not very useful with the top down. We understand that replacement speakers have to be very shallow with a small magnet, with a flush face no tweeter sticking because the grills are flat. For mounting you should be able to find two dimples on each side to drill out between the two access holes on the panel behind the top pump for those with a power top.
Did they put cowl induction hoods on SS from the factory? I have a Camaro with a exterior trim code of M I cannot decode this - please help. This is not an exterior trim code. See the decoding sectionthough there is little that can be said about the code except that it must correlate with your build date and VIN, and so is useful for detecting fake tags. I own a Camaro that was originally built with the front bench seat. Some one installed bucket seats sometime later.
The seat backs are a hard plastic. I also recently scrapped a coupe. This car has the original front buckets. These seat backs are made of a metal material. I have searched vehicles at some shows and most have the metal seat backs, but some also had the plastic seat backs. I also recall from the late seventies owning two different Camaros that had different seat backs, one being metal and the other plastic. Can you shed some light on this?
Also, in response to the question of C. He wants to install a floor shifter and console in his Camaro. I also recently installed a shifter and console in my Camaro. The floor pan has various dimples on the transmission tunnel.
These dimples are the spots where you drill the floor for mounting the the shifter and console. There is also a dimple where the cable passes through the floor. As far as the wiring, it was just a matter of extending the wires from the column switches to the floor shifter switches. Rob Stickan, Nov Our research indicates that the metal seat backs were only, generally phased-out around April though a late build exception has been noted that may have used left-over early seats.
We have never seen them on an original or later model. We believe that your metal-backed seats are seats transplanted into that Thanks for the shifter update.
We're posting it for those that are interested. What is the part number for a AM-FM radio, and does it have an amp? They are very similar in appearance; has "FM AM" on the lens near the switch, while does not have this. Firebird radios are nearly identical but have different model numbers because the lens is not tinted. They do not use an amp. When buying one, make sure the mounting ears have not been cut off the die-cast face plate - as this is a very common problem.
Was it chrome or black? I know the cap was chrome, but several good sources have told me different information. Also, my factory traction bar for my bolt rear is round.
Is it true that the small blocks got the round bar and the big blocks and Z28 got the square bar? Thanks for your time. We are not aware of any exceptions at this time. The simplified story on radius rods you've heard is far too simple, and therefore not accurate.
No 5.7 T-Top Camaros
The story is not complete, and we continue to add bits and pieces to it, and make minor corrections, but most of the common trends have been identified. Note that there is no NCRS equivalent for Camaros, so without uniform and universally accepted Camaro judging guidelines, judging issues, especially on repro parts, are subject to interpretation.
However, Jerry is current on typical Camaro judging practices, so we'll trust this information will be of value to those in a similar situation. Regarding tires for Z28's.
All Z28's were equipped with the wide tread GT tires. They were part of the Z package. One incentive given to owners going for high marks in the concours end are "bonus points" for original wide tread GT tires. However, they must be nylon cord and not the later polyester cord to get the extra bonus points. Or was there nothing distinct about the "RS" to rate a column? Kyle Rodgers, Oct We focused on the performance models initially. We just haven't done the RS yet.
We've got other model additions to also include in a future update; for example the base V8 case has been drafted but we haven't had time to review and update. How can I be sure it is genuine?
Your feedback will be MUCH appreciated. Tracy Gordon, Oct You're close to the right track, but not quite on it. A Z28 motor has an application code of MO. However this is stamped on the motor - it is not part of the VIN.
There is much more than this to determining originality. Not only should the motor should have a matching partial VIN indicating not only a Z28 motor - but the one that originally came with this particular carbut the rest of the car should be consistent with the requirements for an original Z28, and dated original components should generally be fairly close in date.
You can get a good introduction to the subject by studying the Visual ID table for and by reading the decoding section.
The VIN from the dash starts with a - indicating a '68 V8 coupe, right? Am I looking at a possible stolen vehicle or is it possible the VIN just isn't indicating properly? Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Bob Carroll, Sep There is definitely a discrepancy, and it is right to be concerned until it is resolved. VIN errors which this would be - assuming this is truly a convertible are extremely rare we've only seen one example of a VIN error - one that involved an extra digit. The only other explanations involve a rebodied car, a tag swap, or a a coupe that has been converted to a convertible but then the cowl tag is wrong.
To start pursing this, check the VIN against the partial VIN stamped on the top of the firewall under the cowl vent cover.
You can usually see the partial VIN thru the slits if you get in the right position with a flashlight. If you have to take the cowl off it isn't a big deal - four screws plus the wiper arms. Unfortunately, it has long been known in certain circles that these characters should match and are often checked, and so more knowledgeable counterfeiters have various methods of simulating the correct cowl partial VIN stamp.
Ask CRG! - Archives
These methods won't hold up during a complete restoration, and so it will eventually be found out, but too late for a buyer. The next step is to compare the cowl tag data with the VIN, and this process continues with the rest of the numbers on the car. Unfortunately based in large part on conflicting vehicle data we found during follow-up emails we believe this car is probably a stolen convertible with the original cowl tag, which has had the VIN plate replaced from a legal coupe and the partial VIN restamped.
The current owner appears to be blameless in this matter and vows to find out as much as he can - even if it requires disassembly down to the heater box partial VIN which is only rarely touched by counterfeiters. I am a Chevrolet parts manager in North Jersey and a few weeks ago my new zone manager stopped in.
It seems one of his jobs, years ago, was working in the COPO department. Did any one ever hear of these cars? While we've heard rumors of other pacers beyond these, we'd not seen data or history that was referenceable. After getting the phone number for your Zone Manager, we called him to get some background data, and found some interesting stories that we hope to include in upcoming features.
Unfortunately, while he could tell us many things from memory, he had no remaining photos or documentation for any of the Watkins Glen pacers, even the car he owned - which he sold in and was subsequently totaled by the new owner. While we haven't finished tracking this topic down, it will take time. If anyone has first-hand knowledge about first-generation Camaro pacers in general - or any knowledge of the non-Indy pacers specifically, we'd like to talk to you - and you can get in touch with us by sending an ASK CRG!
Thanks, Mike, for the reference and interesting topic! I enjoy your site, keep up the good work! My question is about color on convertible tops in I purchased this car 18 years ago and am now restoring it.
My cowl tag shows the paint code as C-4; a blue top. To my knowledge, 18 years ago the top was a light blue, but I have purchased a top from from a local classic supplier and was told convertible tops were black, white, and dark blue. This would not be a consistent color combination. I do not think it is faded, I removed the old one myself and remember a much lighter blue. Please help me out and tell me there was a blue lighter than this dark blue.
Also can you tell me why this car would resemble a Pace Car but built in Decemberwhen Pace Cars and Replicas were built in April and after? Joe Robinson, Sep Colors do fade with exposure. While we can't call the convertible blue top a "dark" blue, we also can't call it a "light" blue - so you may have experienced some fading.
After re-checking, the description used by GM for this color is "Medium Blue". I showed the dealer sample book with the original color samples to my wife with my finger over the GM color name and asked her to describe the color as light, medium, or dark blue.
She called it "medium". It is true that there was only one color of blue top, while included two interior blues, Bright Blue and Blue, plus Turquoise. I suspect the original top color was chosen to try not to clash too badly if used with any of these three colors.
We have no specific suggestions for a repro source for a correct medium blue top - you'll have to do your own searching here. The pace car was just a specific sequence of options - and the color combination wasn't original or unique to the pace car, as your car demonstrates.
I have a SS that originally came with the deluxe houndstooth interior When I bought it 2 years ago the seat covers had been replaced with standard ones. I am considering putting standard door panels in the car to save a little money. Will these panels stick right on without problems from the door handle or lock? I noticed another question was similar but about the custom interior instead of deluxe. Is this the same?
Also, I saw an article in a popular car magazine about a '69 SS with the deluxe houndstooth interior but with the standard door panels.
Was this a possible combo? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Greg Hiatt, Sep Deluxe and custom interiors are one and the same and included the molded door panels. The car in the magazine was incorrect. But the panels will fit. You can also find the deluxe door panels at swap meets and the like. I am having cooling problems and thought a front spoiler would help. What is correct for '67? When is it correct? Steve Dobek, Sep Spoilers weren't available from the factory in They were made available to select racing teams only.
For the model they front and rear together were made a genuine factory option, RPO D80, but were not required for cooling. I have a Camaro with custom medium blue interior.
When I bought the car, it didn't have a console. I am wanting to add one in. Were the consoles painted to match the interior or were they left black? Also, the car was originally a 4-speed car has a turbo nowand I want to put an auto shifter original style.
Are there any markings in the transmission tunnel for the stock shifter to mount and how hard would it be to wire it in with a repro harness it has a column-shift dash harness? Chris Allen, Sep Most interior colors had the console painted to match, and blue was one of those colors - a blue interior has a blue console. We know that in an automatic floor shifter didn't use the large transmission tunnel hole, only a small one for the shifter cable. The wiring might require a new underdash harness - but we haven't attempted to study such conversions.
As an update to the fan clutch letter of Aug, we dug through our files and found the following related references: Eaton Corp rebuilt a fan clutch but the faceplate was not original in appearance.
No address for a contact. One page and not much description. I have recently purchased the chrome trim that goes along the bottom of each side of the car for my Camaro. Each side contains 4 pieces, 3 above the rocker panel and 1 that goes along the rocker panel. Did Camaros come with both sets of chrome trim?
Do you know of any detailed pictures that would show me the exact location the chrome should be attached to the car? Peter Imseis, Sep You've got two mutually exclusive sets of trim. The three that attach just above the rocker panel fender, door, quarter are only for the rallysport option. The one longer piece that goes along the rocker panel under the door is only for the non-rallysport model.
The assembly manual schematics show the attachment of these pieces. I was thinking of upgrading my speakers, but do not want to cut any holes. I was planning on ordering the dual in-dash 4-inch coaxial speakers that fit in the original dash position.
How easy are they to get to? The car is a SS with air, 4-speed, console gauges. These also need to be replaced, so I can tackle both jobs at once. How hard is it to replace these? Does my SS have sway bars? I was thinking when I get more money to spend I might add front and rear bars as one of my improvements. Car is very original and don't want to modify it too much.
Looking for something with parts exploded views and the like to help a very low mech. Mike Brown, Aug We think you're talking about the dual speakers that are mounted on a board that is shaped like the original single speaker. One of our members installed one in his and isn't impressed with it. All first-generation Camaros have a front sway bar.
None came from the factory with rear sway bars. The assembly manuals are organized in a logical fashion, but it may not be obvious to you at first. Spend some time looking at it before you get frustrated with it. The first-half covers final assembly not including the assembly steps done at Fisher Body of the base car with some notes on how options affect assembly.
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